would this help the deer

[The Ox]

Imo, i believe that the deer herds can be helped with a simple solution. i'd like feedback on your opinions too this. I;m no expert these are my opinions.

In many areas of utah the pinyon and juniper stands have thickened, as well as sage brush.
These 3 are becoming a major problem for deer and other wildlife. i believe part of the problem with the over growth of these trees and sage are due to wildland firefighting. Sage,Pinyon,and Junipers suck most of the little bit of water that the desert we call utah produces,while also blocking critical sunlight for other plant growth. As obvious as this is,have you ever noticed nothing grows in thick pinyon juniper stands,and little in sage brush stands? they compete with grasses forbs and vital deer plants such as bitterbrush for water,while also using water that should be absorbed for springs. This is part of the problem i believe the springs are struggleing as well(obviously drought as well). I personally believe Sage,Pinyons,and Junipers have there places, and are very much needed for cover for deer and wildlife. However too many of these is not a good thing. Much of this state is covered in these! They are also getting bigger and thicker!

My solution would be to allow wildland fires to burn. Allowing these fires to burn(obvioulsy ones that create no threats to towns) will also allow the money not spent suppressing these fires to be used on reseeding these burns. i've personally witnessed the benifits of a burn. An area that was burned just over a year ago has transformed into practically a wildlfie mecca. this area i speak of had very few animals on it in years past. the pinyon juniper stands were so thick the land was practically useless. water was scarce and needed to be pumped several miles in order to have water for even cattle in these areas. this was often the only water as there was not enough for run-off to create ponds. the public agency quickly reseeded and railed much of this burn before winter hit. when spring time rolled around the grass and plants were growing very well. water that normally was sucked up by the p&j's was quick to fill ponds. before long the animals were showing up. i've personally never seen this many animals on any of this range combined. yet there were hundreds of animals on this several thousand acre burn in less than a year from the fire.
i personally believe this would be a major factor in bringing back the deer herd. creating habitat that was once practically useless will obviously allow more deer on a range. springs will also be improved from more water being able to enter the ground.

there will still be plenty of p&j left for cover for wildlife. wildlife do not need or use the amount of p&j we have on our lands. its useless!

so my solution in short is: quit suppressing the wildland fires and use the money normally spent for suppression to be used on reseeding the burn.

this and more precise management of herd units will greatly help IMO

[stillhunterman]

This might help with a little insight OX. What you suggest is a start...
http://www.createstrat.com/muledeerinthewest/plant.html

[derekp1999]

I have heard of private land owners performing prescribed burns on their property and getting good results.

[The Ox]

still hunter.... sounds like that arcticle about the pinyons pretty much supports my opinion.

sounds and makes plenty sense to me. wildland firefighting has become such a big corporation its gonna be hard to convince anyone we needit to save the deer herds.

another thing that i have found on the burn i described was, the areas that were railed and the ground was disturbed greatly and i mean greatly incresed the amount of vegitation that grew. in spots that no railing was done there was hardly and grasses growning. everywhere it was railed looked awesome!

i beleive the burns are most effective even over raling unburned stands or even the brush bull hoggin. the fire puts nitrogen into the soil which is a key factor for growing

[The Ox]

i know i will get people claiming cheat grass fire cycle bull crap. but this is due to not properly reseeding burns. if a burn is reseeded properly and the right grasses and forbs are used they can and do compete very well with cheat grass. yes there probably will be some cheat still but the cheat grass although not much good is still better than p&j's.

another thing i for got to mention there will be people suggesting sage brush is a critical food source for deer but i beleive it is bull crap as well and i bellieve its a a deers last choice of food source. if it was a good food source there would be enough sage brush habitat to allow a heck of a lot more deer than we currently hold.

the fact is some sage is good for animal cover but i dont beleive it to be much of a food source for anything. if sage brush stands are burned of or disced up and replanted it would do wonders as well. i have also experienced this on our range as well. what once was all sage is now grassland. many animals have moved into thte area from this being done as well. the rancher did all the work himself and created a great thing. it was helped funded by i believe blm but it shows how musch one guy with a tractor and a little money can do

[proutdoors]

i know i will get people claiming cheat grass fire cycle bull crap. but this is due to not properly reseeding burns. if a burn is reseeded properly and the right grasses and forbs are used they can and do compete very well with cheat grass. yes there probably will be some cheat still but the cheat grass although not much good is still better than p&j's.

another thing i for got to mention there will be people suggesting sage brush is a critical food source for deer but i beleive it is bull crap as well and i bellieve its a a deers last choice of food source. if it was a good food source there would be enough sage brush habitat to allow a heck of a lot more deer than we currently hold.

the fact is some sage is good for animal cover but i dont beleive it to be much of a food source for anything. if sage brush stands are burned of or disced up and replanted it would do wonders as well. i have also experienced this on our range as well. what once was all sage is now grassland. many animals have moved into thte area from this being done as well. the rancher did all the work himself and created a great thing. it was helped funded by i believe blm but it shows how musch one guy with a tractor and a little money can do

Sage brush is the most crucial nutrition sources for mule deer in most parts of Utah. The problem with most sage brush today is they are old and lack nutrition, this is mostly due to fire suppression.

[The Ox]

i agree sage brush is a part of deers diets. but i believe its due to the only thing they have to eat anymore. i think its a sort of last resort. i believe they would rather be eating stuff like bitter brush and mahogany type plants. we have way too much old worthless sage. it is not good! like i said it(sage) along with the p&j's need to be burned or disced up. this will alllow younger more nutrioius sdtuff too grow back.like the plants, grasses and forbs deer eat. our current sage and p&j's stands are not a good thing in any way possible.

[Huge29]

The DWR had a pretty large project about 3-4 years ago in Spanish Fork Canyon in ripping out all of the P&J's and reseeding for sage. I have also seen where on DWR land they have sprayed strips of sage to kill it so that new plants can take over. So, the DWR's own action seem so support your theory, in part, at least.

[m gardner]

The places I've seen that burned about 10 years ago held more mulies for a few years then they favored elk over deer and now they are great places to hunt elk but not deer. One spot I hunt the elk kill went up 600% in 8 years as opposed to the deer kill going up 150%. I think that burns basically benefit elk, as long as there's enough water to support their needs.
Mark

[proutdoors]

http://www.muledeerworkinggroup.com/Doc ... hanges.pdf

This an excellent read to get a better idea of what is really going on, and what plants actually are NEEDED for mule deer to survive/thrive. Speculation is NOT how we should be managing our deer herds, but sadly that IS how we are currently managing them. Pay close attention to page 5, as it deals directly with habitat/mule deer food.