Keith or O'connor

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Keith or O'connor

Post by Springville Shooter » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:10 pm

Back in the olden days of gun writers, two of the best took opposite stances on the best properties of a hunting rifle. Jack O'connor always touted the 270 win and other such cartridges that shot faster and flatter with smaller projectiles. His counterpart across the state of Idaho, a man named Elmer Keith took the position that the best hunting guns were those that launched big heavy bullets at much slower speeds such as the 338-06. It seems to me by the new cartridges that we see coming out on the market today that there are still loyal followers to both ways of thinking. What do you think? And for those of you older than myself, which of these two did you like the best? Always fun to get everyones point of view. -shooter
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Re: Keith or O'connor

Post by NONYA » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:51 pm

they bragged up whatever they were selling,PR was still PR back then.

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Re: Keith or O'connor

Post by ABert » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:38 pm

I am on the O'Conner side by default. My whole family was born and raised on .270s with the exception of lever rifles. Ol' Jack did prove that the .270 is a very capable round by taking every North American big game animal with it.

Though I do have a .30-06 :-$
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Re: Keith or O'connor

Post by NONYA » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:21 am

270 is a good round but there are much better rounds for elk,for example the 300 win mag,just for one.Fred Bear killed WAY more big game with an old hand made stick bow than oconner ever did with his 270.

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Re: Keith or O'connor

Post by killerbee » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:41 am

and there are WAY better rounds than the 300 win mag. example the 300 wby, and a few more.


but since the question was a simple " what do you tend to go with? the ligher, flatter style gun , or the heavier , harder hitting gun" ?




my answer- i try and get the best of both worlds. my 300 weatherby m loaded with 165 swift a-frame bullets is a Pretty flat shooting gun, but if i could ask my alaska youkon moose, he'd say that sucker hits pretty friekin hard :)

for elk i've always had at least a 30-06. but i did take my mom out for a cow tag once. she used her trusty little 243 rem. and shot a cow and watched her go down in 50 yrds. a whole in the lungs doesn't care what it was shot with.

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Re: Keith or O'connor

Post by sneekeepete » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:58 am

I have to agree with Killer on this topic. Since there are so many new rounds these days I try to get the best from both worlds.
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Re: Keith or O'connor

Post by Springville Shooter » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:14 am

You guys bring up a great point, and one that makes me believe that the 30 cal is simply the best all-around caliber there is. Take the 300win, wthrby, or even ultra. You can load 125-150gr bullets and shoot at varmint rifle speeds, then turn around and load a 200 or even 220 grain and head out on the plains of Africa. Then you can split the difference, load 165 or 180 and you have a cartridge that shoots flatter than Jacks 270 and hits harder that Elmers 338. This makes me wonder why we are still seeing cartridges like the .338-06 fed appearing on the market today. There must still be some fanfare for these "older style" cartridges. Me, I'm a split. I love my supermags, no doubt, but I still find myself packing the 25-06 or even 308 once in a while. One things for sure, talking about guns and cartridges is almost as fun as shooting them.( except at big mule deer bucks of course.)---shooter
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Re: Keith or O'connor

Post by m gardner » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:37 pm

Who did I like best? Both had alot to offer. O'Connor was a brilliant man and writer. Keith was an illiterate cowboy with a gift. If you read about the two men they were both exceptional. I love the 44 magnum and the 338-06 as a result of Keith's writing. I wore out several 270 winchesters because I read Cactus Jack's articles constantly. I found neither man to be a liar. But they obviously loved to irritate each other. O'Connor is the only expert with a rifle I know that shot his own toe off though. I guess the 270 is enough gun to get that done. :))
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Re: Keith or O'connor

Post by NONYA » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:20 pm

Kieth and my Great Grandfather caught and broke wild horses off our ranch just north of here in Helena for grub money WAY back in the day,my grandfather tells stories about them having pistol shooting contests off horseback at running jacks and coyotes.Elmer wrote about some of it in his book "burn i was there".Most of what was written about these men was written by themselves,thery were the Tom Knaps of their day and they wernt afraid to self promote.Even when the .270 was new to the market there were better elk rounds avaliable,but Oconner was trying to sell the .270,having a big name like Oconner braggin up your new round sells rifles.I dont use a .30 cal on anything anymore,my .284 7mag and .323 8mag can dish out more than anyone really needs.

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Re: Keith or O'connor

Post by Springville Shooter » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:56 pm

Nonya,
I have to say that my pet rifle is a 7mm as well. Used to be a 7mm rem mag, but after I shot out the second barrell, I rechambered it to 7 dakota. I also can be caught with a 25-06AI and I love my 338 RUM that shoots 225 Nosler ABs at 3200fps. Still I would have to say that I think the magnum 30's win the versatility contest. I like your 8mm caliber, but like my 25's I wish they would make more bullets for it. I have buddies that work at swift, maybe we should ask them for a 210gr scirocco bullet with a .500BC for the 8mm's. I finally got my 100 grainers for the 25. ----shooter
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