New Utah General Season Units

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MuleyFreak
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New Utah General Season Units

Post by MuleyFreak » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:35 am

The new boundary map for the Utah general season mule deer hunt is out and I'm curious what you guys think about the new changes.
http://wildlife.utah.gov/maps/esri_30_units.php

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MuleyMadness
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Re: New Utah General Season Units

Post by MuleyMadness » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:05 pm

I hope this helps the deer herds, I really do. I'll admit I have my doubts though, afraid this will turn the state into even more of a Limited Entry state with it becoming even more difficult to draw a tag. I'm all FOR this and it's fine if the hunting is better or improved when one does draw a tag. If not, I think we need to tweak it and make other changes (I'm sure they will anyway).

I'd like to see them close some units for a few years. Pick the worst 1-3 units in the state and close them for 3 years or so. I'd also like the Rifle hunt to go back to 5 days at least in my neck of the woods anyway.

Be interesting to see what happens, bit of a gamble applying the first year.

I used to hunt 5 of these units on a fairly regular basis, NOT anymore. :)

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Re: New Utah General Season Units

Post by ridgetop » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:02 am

I'm anxiously awaiting the results in the next couple of years. I'm really hoping to be able see more bucks on the winter range around my house and to be able to take my family for short hikes and see a good balance of bucks and does. To me, this is worth the cost of not hunting every year. Right now, this does not exist on my unit with a very poor buck to doe ratio in many of the more family friendly areas. What I mean by this is... sure, I can hike several miles back into the roughest, steepest stuff on the mountain to find big bucks but I can't take my family back into these areas because of physical reasons.
There's always next year

highcountryarchery
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Re: New Utah General Season Units

Post by highcountryarchery » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:39 am

I kinda have the same concern about making it a lil bit more limited entry. I know down here where I live lots of people come to hunt so it feels like to me that its gonna be having 3 limited entry units instead of just one

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Muleys 24/7
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Re: New Utah General Season Units

Post by Muleys 24/7 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:57 pm

I'm wanting to see the outcome of this in Utah as well. If it really helps the heards,and increses buck to doe ratio that much .....it'll be worth the wait for a good unit. There is a couple of deer zones in my state where I wish they would shut down for a couple of years but I don't think it'll ever happen?

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stillhunterman
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Re: New Utah General Season Units

Post by stillhunterman » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:35 pm

I'm afraid this new system will do nothing to help the deer herds, but it will allow the DWR to manage HUNTERS better, and will even bring the buck to doe ratio up in some areas. The declining mule deer populations across the entire west is a major concern for all the various game agencies, and as of yet, they have not been able to reverse the downward trend in mule deer populations, even those states that utilize the "multiple unit" management, such as Colorado.

Hunting mulies has been my passion since I was just a kid, and it nearly breaks my heart to see the populations faltering. I would do whatever it takes to help the herds, even if it meant not hunting for a while. I don't however, back a plan that does nothing to help the deer herds, yet is touted as doing such by those who back its existance, and not by those who actually do the managing.

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Re: New Utah General Season Units

Post by Mularcher » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:58 am

Is there any talk of reducing tags? I was amazed at the numbers of hunters I saw during the rifle hunt in a couple southern areas. I'd be in favor of shutting down the worst units or cutting tags by at least 75% for several years.
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Re: New Utah General Season Units

Post by sneekeepete » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:34 am

Mularcher I beleive they were talking about cutting tags by 13000. Don't quote me on that but that is what comes to my mind.
Personally I think the state should make all hunters over the age of 18 shoot something 4 point on one side or bigger unless they are holding a management tag. If a hunter is 18 or younger they can take any legal buck as stated in regs right now.
I think this would help the deer herds more than anything the DWR has done to date.
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MuleyMadness
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Re: New Utah General Season Units

Post by MuleyMadness » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:09 pm

I think the "new" tag numbers is the possibility for not having to cut that many tags (13,000), in large part to the UWC group. Feeling like they will never get them back, might be right on that.

Not sure it will happen, but it's a possibility. I know it's being discussed AGAIN. Kinda crazy talk to me after we just determined all this but oh well.

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Re: New Utah General Season Units

Post by dahlmer » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:12 pm

I don't see this measure doing much to help the long-term health of the our deer herds. It should, however, do a decent job of managing hunters. The real loser in this appears to be the archers...I'm not one, but losing statewide archery has to sting a bit. I don't see how the state can do it any other way under this management strategy though. I'll be curious to see how this ultimately impacts the dedicated hunter program as well.

I'll share a couple of thoughts on why I don't feel this will help the deer herds. Five years ago, I was a big proponant of this, ironically enough it was a conversation with John Baer that initially got me thinking more critically of this strategy.

The biggest factor in all of this is that higher buck numbers will do nothing in the vast majority of units to improve overall deer numbers. There may be a few isolated areas that there are not enough bucks to cover every doe, but most areas have sufficient buck numbers. Research has indicated that a ratio of 5:100 is sufficient, but I would think at least double that number would be ideal. Higher buck to doe ratios is simply a desire by hunters to see more and bigger bucks. The area I have hunted the last few years has easy access and by my anecdotal evidence contained very high buck to doe ratios, although most of the buck were no more than 2 1/2 years old.

There is evidence that suggests that ratios too high can adversly affect population numbers as well. Firstly, if we assume that winter range is a limiting factor and that it can only carry X number of deer, then any number of bucks over what is necessary to breed all the does limits the reproductive vitality of the overall herd. I don't know what all of the limiting factors of Utah's deer herds are nor do I understand what the direct impact of each of those factors is individually, but I do know that our winter habitat plays a large role in limiting herd numbers. I also know that there is a lot less of it and what remains is in far worse condition than it was in the 50's and 60's.

Secondly, previous to the severe winters in '07 and '08 we were planning our first hunting trip to Colorado. During that time I spoke with several biologist in Colorado and had some conversations regarding buck:doe ratios etc. Several of them commented that one of the risks of high buck ratios is increased competition during the rut which often sent the bucks into the winter in poor condition. During mild winters this was OK, but they predicted in a severe winter the die off could be very high. This happened during '07 and to a lesser extent in '08 with many premier areas seeing herd numbers drop more than 40%. While Utah saw herd numbers fall, our collapse was not nearly as significant as Colorado's. I spoke with the same biologists this year and while the herds have stabalized, they have yet to see a rebound despite several mild winters since then. If you look at Utah's LE units the deers herds there do not seemed to have faired any better than those in the general units.

At the end of the day, I'm not a big proponant of this as a herd management strategy, however, I do think it will do a nice job of controlling huting pressure. I'm fortunate in that the areas I generally hunt are no more divided now than they were previously. I'm still just looking at applying in two different areas. I could get behind this more if as part of the change either the preference point pool or the bonus pool was eliminated and all deer units in the state were combined into one pool. I understand this discussion has happend, but I don't believe anything has been decided.

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