wolf meeting in cedar city

[The Ox]

also the mexico wolf things have already happened in new mex and arizona. so no its not years away it is here! dont be naive and gullable.

[klbzdad]

If you think wolves are an immediate threat to Southern Utah....wait till you see the supposed proposal in someone's sleep to introduce 1,000,000,000 Fruit Bats into The Dixie National Forest! Have you seen the size of those bats?!?!?!

Here are the details, DON'T WAIT UNTIL ITS TOO LATE!

http://www.thefatmaninthewoods.com/p/st ... llion.html


There is not a plan to introduce wolves in Utah. Their argument is based on a "draft" and an old reintroduction study from USFWS which is right now, DOA. Here is a link to the Arizona Department of Wildlife....it'll do you some good to see where their wolf packs currently are and there are also other documents available there as well.

http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/es/wolf_reintroduction.shtml

[stillhunterman]

stillhunter how do you know its hogwash? you think the wolfers play fair? you think the govt agencies are honest, and dont try to hide things from us? alot of our agencies like blm are led by environmentalists. if you dont think so you need to get out of the hole your in.
blm is now turning from a conservation group to a preservation group. the y dont allow habitat restoration such as clearing sage, p&j etc. as soon as a fire starts they put it out.

For you too think govt agencies would not do these things is nuts. the blm was working with suwa and other groups to make a lot of public lands in so utah into wilderness without talking to ranchers and the public. THEY HELD SECRET MEETINGS ETC,. And i know this for fact as we ranch some of the area they were intending on making wilderness. we found out about some of the meetings and my uncle was able to attend one. yada yada yada long story short they were doing it behind our backs. I believe they woul;d introduce wolves behind our backs becasue if they let sportsmen know about it they will be in court for years trying to get it done when they could just introduce and then fight like what happened to the fellers north of us. all the court time allowed the wolves to really get spread out and thin the elk herds etc. mission accomplished. now idaho, montana, wyomings elk herds are years and years away from recovery. dont think for a minute it cant happen. whether its 5 years down the road or ten. we need to stop it before it is even close to happening. they are already working on plans and that is already toooooo far and nerve racking.

I am not a member of sfw and have not given them a dime. they didnt ask for people join or give money at the meeting. however they asked we sign the FREE petition about wolves on BGF website. as well as to write the legislators/governor etc about the wolves not being wanted

Before I respond to your post, let me make something very clear. It was not my intention to direct my post at you, nor was it my intent to belittle your efforts. There is too much divisive rhetoric being slung by too many hunters against each other, and I don't want to be a part of that, it's no good for our sport.

First of all, I agree there are "secret, back room deals and meetings", just like the one SFW's cronies down south did in Arizona with HB2072 and the tag grab. Totally back doored the sportsmen and conservation groups and the game commission. This is just ONE link on the issue. Follow the money and the leadership to see where it ends up...

http://phoenix.fanster.com/2012/01/10/h ... n-arizona/


However, the ESA has strict guidelines that must be followed by law, and although there may be "secret" meetings, the actual introduction of endangered species must adhere to these laws. I am very well aware of the Blue Ridge/White Sands etc. wolf introduction attempts that began several years ago, and the various snags and issues that have developed over the years. I am also fully aware of the "agenda" to have the Mexican wolf introduced into various areas of the Grand Canyon (North Rim) Eco system. It is merely an agenda, and the USFWS hasn't even began looking at the issues involving that agenda to any real degree. That was the crux of my post. The GC effort is simply an effort being pushed by the left wing wacko's just like the Gray Wolf issue was, it is NOT a viable, imminent threat whatsoever. For BGF/SFW to push the "secret wolf invasion" thing onto caring sportsmen is reprehensible.

I don't live in a hole, nor am I gullible or naive. I do however try to educate myself on the various issues that are ever concerning to our hunting heritage. I will give you this: "If" what you say has any semblance of truth to it, then I would ask BGF/SFW to share the information about the "secret wolf invasion" they thwarted at the last second with the various conservation orgs that are also in this fight. I don't want the wolf any more than you do, and will back those who I feel can represent my concerns. Heck, I will throw some money towards BGF if they can prove what they are claiming, no big deal...

[The Ox]

Still- I understand. The way alot of the anti hunting wacky people work is not by the rules. Id be willing to bet some are crazy enough to illegally introduce wolves in areas. If that was to happen we would be stuck with a thumb in our you know what. Wolves being on the ESA currently we would not legally be able to do anything about it. I am saying the farther ahead of the game we are the better. If we can get them completely removed or give the State the power to be able to remove them long before they are introduced I think we would be smart. It would cover our behinds incase of whatever would happen. I dont know if there is secret plans or what but i would be willing to bet its not worth the risk waiting to find out

[ridgetop]

I agree with both you guys. The more info. on the subject, the better.

[JBird]

I agree with ridgetop, the more info the better. I also think that this is along way from being a reality. I very much doubt the wolves could survive for long anyway on the Dixie.

[The Ox]

j bird have you seen the amount of livestock, horses, deer, jack rabbits in the dixie? they could survive pretty well ill bet

[stillhunterman]

Some good points being made here. Valid information is critical when it comes to such important issues as Wolf reintroduction/introduction around the country. Thus my point in a previous post. Far be it from me to push my personal beliefs onto anyone. Ox is right about getting your beliefs and concerns out there. We all need to do it. I simply prefer to utlize the most viable methods and outlets that give me the biggest bang for my bucks (hehehe).

The wolf issue is perhaps the most emotionally charged, controversial if not contentious issue we hunters have ever faced. Those organizations that represent us must not allow emotion and rhetoric to rule the day, but rather push reason over emotion, articulate the rule of law, support State Management and established viable Wolf Plans, utilize substantiated Scientific management efforts, and perhaps above all, keep we the hunters informed with ACCURATE information with which to base our own concerns.

As OX pointed out, the other side rarely fights fair. We must all be vigilant, tenatious, supportive and vocal with great resolve. Should we win the day, it will perhaps be our greatest victory and will be mentioned side by side with the greatest conservation tenet ever created, the North American Wildlife Conservation Model.