Utah's Management Tags- Thoughts please (Paunsaugunt)

[MuleyMadness]

ALL Pauns bucks from this year?

Couple of GREAT management bucks. But I see TONS of these type of poor genetics/crab-clawed stuff etc. Would you guys shoot these bucks with your Premium LE tag?

I wouldn't unless it was done to the last day maybe, thus part of the problem no-one really does but they continue to run around and breed like crazy.

I like these tags, think they are a good thing also. But how about giving some archers a shot at some with an earlier hunt/date.

[MuleyMadness]

One more management buck, he is mine leave him for me.

[firefighterbraun]

So i got to be honest here....I'd be flinging arrows. Those are some nice looking bucks in my opinion. I guess not the mosters that are supposed to be on limited entry areas but I'd be happy with one of those. Those big 3x4s look like trophys to me. I wouldn't mind doing a archery management hunt down there. That first buck is way tall! And Brett if you claim that last one can I stake claim on the buck in the second pic??

[sewing]

I may take some flak for this but.......

On the first day of my Henries hunt I spotted the biggest muley I have ever seen with my own eyes. It was looking right at me, boxy frame over 32 inches wide (i really think 35) and easily 25 inches high. I was shaking and dropped to the ground and put him in my sites "THIS IS THE ONE! What a monster!". My friend thought I got hit by a stray bullet I hit the ground so fast. He told me to wait one second till it turned it's head.................

3 POINT!!!????

Man that thing was huge. I bet it would have made the book.

[jdh]

Boy Brett, I don't know anything about genetics. My two boys are as different as night and day, hair color, eye color, build, even skin color. one is really a pale white and the other looks liked he just walked out of a tanning booth. And I am pretty sure they have the same dad.

I am not sure I see more crabby bucks or not. Sometimes I think so, then other times I wonder if they have always been around and we think there are more because we don't see any big bucks like we used to. I think I am leaning to things being mostly the same, but with a couple years of management hunts perhaps that will change. I really don't think that many bucks that have the genetics to be huge ever get to reach their full potential on the pauns. I mean of course a few do, but for the most part I think they are harvested. The hunters, guides, equipment have become to effective. Look at the $$$$ people will spend to kill a big buck. I think the genetics are still there on the pauns... What made the pauns so good in the first place? 5 yrs of no deer tags. What made the henries so great? same thing, and then even better they have given way less tags on the henries once it opened back up. Ya close the pauns. for 5 yrs and I believe it would come back. Perhaps I am wrong but I believe it is as simple as limiting the harvest. Now I know range and habitat come into play now with x-amount of years of drought. But again I think you would need alot more deer out there then we currently have, and again I could be wrong. I think it would be awesome to have an archery management hunt during thanksgiving. I would burn some points for that! and it would be one fun hunt! But SW nailed it when he said the DWR wants 100% success on these hunts. I wonder what the pauns.. would look like if there were only managment type hunts for 5 years and no trophy permits. Not even any permits for the CWMU. hmm that might be interesting

jdh

[jdh]

Here is the managment buck I want to shoot. Tall, Wide and Heavy 2x2. also old.

IMG_3025.JPG (228.55 KiB) Viewed 4056 times

jdh

[Shedfreak88]

What about all the cattle that are running around? Do they not have any effect on the deer?Because i assume theres a ton of cattle roaming around down there like everywhere else and I thought that they would have a big effect on the deer considering that they do consume some of the same things? i know they wont have an effect on the management bucks, im just talking about the deer herd in general

[MuleyMadness]

JDH,

I wonder what the pauns.. would look like if there were only managment type hunts for 5 years and no trophy permits. Not even any permits for the CWMU. hmm that might be interesting

That's a great idea, I like it. Would be AMAZING again IMO.


Shedfreak88

Do they not have any effect on the deer?

Absolutely they have an effect, and yes it effects habitat and rangeland, feed, etc. They trample and destroy all kinds of winter and summer grounds. Not saying the 2 can't co-exist, because they can and do but cattle certainly effect deer. IMO

[Shedfreak88]

Thats exactly what i thought but do you ever hear of anyone saying anything about the cattle? I never do. In some areas like where i live they say the deer population is low because theres to many elk but when I drive up on the mtn and see more cattle in five minutes then I see elk and deer all summer in the same draws that I've watched elk and deer then i start thinking we might have a problem. I know cattle aren't new to living there summers up on top and there winters down low every single year and i know deer and elk can co-exist with the cattle, but even after one summer or winter you can see how bad the cattle have trashed everything to death. and yes that does effect the deer greatly. If I was someone important and had a say in anything I'd say take the cattle off the mountain or at least put a limit to how many are up there...thats just my thought though

[shedcrazyUT]

I am not an expert on genetics, biology, or management, but I have lived on the unit my whole life and have worked on the pauns for several years so I have seen alot of changes over the years. The deer numbers in general are way down, and the big buck numbers are down but I think the genetics are still there. There are way too many factors determining what is happening to the deer on the pauns to go into, so for now I will ask a few questions.
Genetically speaking how do we know that a 3x4, 2x3, or 2x4 is not a favorable trait?
What about the deer that migrate south into Az that are shot during their late hunts, what affect do they have?
During the heydays of the pauns there were way more elk and cattle on the land then there are now, why are the deer not rebounding with less competition?