wyoming upping the ante
i think i'm going for the special draw for elk and just a point for muley BUT..... i might go special for both! and i really need to get some info on some of the sheep hunts, anybody have any they want to share?? if there is a somewhat decsent chance at a sheep tag i would love to hear?? i'm sure so would a lot of people! but over all i really want a tag this year and i figure if you are going to apply why not give yourself the best chance you can right??
From my perspective this statement is totally untrue."This increase is not out of line compared to what a majority of western states charge NR for tags, points, hunting licenses etc..."
I apply for hunts in 9 states every year. Before Wyoming increased their tag prices they were already the most expensive state for me to apply in. Maybe the tag prices did need to be increased, but does Wyoming really need to charge that much for bonus points as well?
What are they going to do when people decide to "enjoy the resources" somewhere else? Every state (especially Wyoming) better be prepared to manage their resources on 40% of their past revenue when they run off the nonresidents due to high prices. It's naive of anyone to think that any state can charge whatever they want and people will always pay to play. Eventually a line will be drawn that people won't cross."...as long as Wyoming's policy is to have a self maintaining Game and Fish it is up to the people that enjoy the resources to be the ones that pay."
In the business world there is nothing that frustrates me more than a company that treats its potential customers better than the ones it already has. It's my opinion that nonresident hunters of any state are the best customers in the industry. I don’t think that there’s a business in the world that can survive through time by continually sticking it to its best customers.
At least the point will up your odds for next year if you don't draw and will be refunded if you do, compared to the worthless "Hunting License" many states require including Idaho just to apply or buy a point. You can apply for Wyoming deer with a preference point cheaper than I can for Idaho, as long as you are not greedy and apply for the "Special" draw, and if you draw your preference point is refunded.Maybe the tag prices did need to be increased, but does Wyoming really need to charge that much for bonus points as well?
They would raise the Resident fees to make up the 40%. There are many residents that would be happy to pay more for NR to be out of the picture, especially for LE permits like Moose, Goat, and Sheep. At least Wyoming lets NR apply and hunt for these species, many other states are starting to limit species for NR.What are they going to do when people decide to "enjoy the resources" somewhere else? Every state (especially Wyoming) better be prepared to manage their resources on 40% of their past revenue when they run off the nonresidents due to high prices.
But this will never happen because just like every other state Wyoming will sell all of there NR tags as long as they are available, this is sad but true. The reality is hunting is slowly becoming a rich mans sport, but at least in Wyoming like it or not the cost of wildlife management is the reason behind across the board license increases for NR and Resident. If people don't want to pay NR fees but still hunt Wyoming they should move here, god knows there are plenty of jobs available.
Welcome to Wyoming! Now take a Wolf and leave.
It's only worthless if you decide not to use it. The bottom line is you're buying something that guarantees you can go hunt if you choose to. A bonus point is nothing more than another name in the hat with no guarantees."...compared to the worthless "Hunting License" many states require including Idaho just to apply or buy a point."
Don't get me wrong, I'm not just singling out Wyoming, they're just the most recent. I think that they're only one spoke in the wheel that's creating a monster that will ruin hunting.
So in your eyes is this a problem or not? One minute you say that you agree with the increase and the next that hunting becoming a rich man’s sport is sad. To me you can’t separate the two."The reality is hunting is slowly becoming a rich mans sport."
This might be true, but you mentioned earlier that nonresident hunters make up 60% of the revenue the G&F has to work with. If all nonresidents dropped out of the game then Wyoming would immediately have to increase resident prices by 150% without loosing a single resident. You and I both know this is unrealistic at best.“There are many residents that would be happy to pay more for NR to be out of the picture, especially for LE permits like Moose, Goat, and Sheep.”
My whole point is that each state keeps justifying price increases by pointing to the others. Now the next state will point to the increases Wyoming and Utah just made. Before long Wyoming and Utah are upping the ante again. Around and around we go until the blocks come tumbling down.
This is a side note because I’m curious. What states and what species? I only ask because I haven’t heard anything yet.“…many other states are starting to limit species for NR.”
O.K. here is a football to kick around. If the Wyo fish and game is self supporting and the majority of it's revenue comes from NR in essence they should be working for the best interest of the NR. This brings me to another part of the whole.
Public ground for the most part is federally funded and federal property. My taxes as well as any tax paying citizen should have equal rights to access and privilege to that land. So, cost average NR to Resident tags to anyone who hunts on federal land to be the same price. How could it be any fairer than that? Especially since NR fund the majority of a self sustained agency anyway.
It's a good plan only if you are a resident to Wyoming. I guarantee if they jacked resident tags the same dollar amount they did NR the would be a different tune being sung.
Public ground for the most part is federally funded and federal property. My taxes as well as any tax paying citizen should have equal rights to access and privilege to that land. So, cost average NR to Resident tags to anyone who hunts on federal land to be the same price. How could it be any fairer than that? Especially since NR fund the majority of a self sustained agency anyway.
It's a good plan only if you are a resident to Wyoming. I guarantee if they jacked resident tags the same dollar amount they did NR the would be a different tune being sung.
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TheGreatwhitehunter
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Coloradobuck
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waynedevore
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No doubt NR tags have increased by a higher dollar amount than residents, as the way it should be not only in Wyoming but every other state also. Having cheap Resident tags is a perc of being a resident and can be obtained by anyone who chooses.
One thing NR rarely if ever think about is the volunteer work that alot of residents offer to the G&F that helps keep thier operational costs to a minimum. Over 90% of the volunteer work is done by residents as it should be, and this work contributes a massive savings to the department. I personally have spent more out of my pocket this year in volunteer work than a NR would unless they drew a tag for every species. This work has included multiple winter kill studies, deer and antelope health and collaring studies, Bobcat, Lynx, and Lion radio collar tracking in the middle of winter using personal snowmachines, multiple Gill net studies, and assisting with habitat improvement for the Colorado Cutthroat, just to name a few.
Like I said earlier hunting is slowly becoming a rich mans sport, but there are many other contributing factors than tag increases. I have more of a problem with how todays land owners are now charging people hundreds of dollars to hunt thier property or worse yet leasing thier property to outfitters or hunting companies. We even have landowners charging people that drive across thier lands just to access public ground on the other side. When I was younger most landowners would beg people to come and shoot an animal on thier land just so that animal wouldn't hurt crops or compete with livestock. But now people have found away to make a buck and put money in thier pocket. We can contribute most of this to today's world of "Trophy" hunting and how everyone is so intrigued on what an animial scores, and how many will pay just about anything to have bigger and better than the last guy.
As long as tag increases are 100% going to the management of wildlife and not to a states general fund to be allocated as neccessary then I don't have a problem. Not only is this how Wyoming is the increase was justified as increased management costs or it would not have been approved.
Oh and IDHunter off of the top of my head Colorado and South Dakota are two states that limit species for NR. Colorado for Desert Sheep and SD for Elk. I think there is more but I can not remember right now
One thing NR rarely if ever think about is the volunteer work that alot of residents offer to the G&F that helps keep thier operational costs to a minimum. Over 90% of the volunteer work is done by residents as it should be, and this work contributes a massive savings to the department. I personally have spent more out of my pocket this year in volunteer work than a NR would unless they drew a tag for every species. This work has included multiple winter kill studies, deer and antelope health and collaring studies, Bobcat, Lynx, and Lion radio collar tracking in the middle of winter using personal snowmachines, multiple Gill net studies, and assisting with habitat improvement for the Colorado Cutthroat, just to name a few.
Like I said earlier hunting is slowly becoming a rich mans sport, but there are many other contributing factors than tag increases. I have more of a problem with how todays land owners are now charging people hundreds of dollars to hunt thier property or worse yet leasing thier property to outfitters or hunting companies. We even have landowners charging people that drive across thier lands just to access public ground on the other side. When I was younger most landowners would beg people to come and shoot an animal on thier land just so that animal wouldn't hurt crops or compete with livestock. But now people have found away to make a buck and put money in thier pocket. We can contribute most of this to today's world of "Trophy" hunting and how everyone is so intrigued on what an animial scores, and how many will pay just about anything to have bigger and better than the last guy.
As long as tag increases are 100% going to the management of wildlife and not to a states general fund to be allocated as neccessary then I don't have a problem. Not only is this how Wyoming is the increase was justified as increased management costs or it would not have been approved.
Oh and IDHunter off of the top of my head Colorado and South Dakota are two states that limit species for NR. Colorado for Desert Sheep and SD for Elk. I think there is more but I can not remember right now
Welcome to Wyoming! Now take a Wolf and leave.
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TheGreatwhitehunter
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Wyosheds:
First off this is not directed at any one person just my opinion and no disrespect or offense meant to anyone.
Wyodsheds you make some good points but it seems it will only get worse before it gets better. I think that is great that you have you volunteer to help the Game and Fish. As you said not many people do so and I don’t think there will ever be too many NR willing to travel to another state to so but would be great if more people volunteered in their own states, it is a great way to learn about wildlife and how the Game and fish operates.
Tag fee increases are only going to get worse and every time people drop out of hunting a state someone else will only benefit from the lesser competition whether it be points or tags. If you live in a state and pay taxes than you should pay a lesser rate than a NR period not saying that NR fees in the West are cheap but they seem to be following suite with what other states are charging and doing. As far as tag fees going directly to the Fish and Game I am not so sure I know in a few states the state collects the money and gives the Fish and Game a % or set budget of it to operate on they say most states have a self supporting Game and Fish dept imagine how much they could do if they really collected what revenue they brought in instead of the greedy government wasting it and treating it as a cash cow. More than a few Western states collect so much money form the oil and gas companies who operate on public lands and destroy wild life habitat imagine if the bulk of that money coming in went for education and wildlife tags fees surely would have no reason to be so high.
I guess you can not blame a land owner for charging money to hunt on land he owns maintains and pays a mortgage and taxes on.
Leasing it to outfitters is common even back East now dais seems every where to hunt private you will have to be willing to pay. Unlike back East we are blessed with many big game animals and Lots of Public land to hunt. Supply and demand of private lands and trophy animals have changed forever the way Private land access is handled. But on the other hand if it was not my land to begin with and a land owner allowed hunting but now not with out a fee than I did not really loose anything but access to land that the land owner was generous enough to let me on.
Growing up in the East I had to rely on Private permission as there was slim to no public land to hunt where I grew up at first it was fairly easy to get access but soon landowners where leasing land to pay taxes on their property which is very high in the East. Hunting clubs started up and gobbled up large tracts of prime land and limited membership and charged high rates.
I hunt both private and public in a few western states including Wyoming I have a few friends that own small to large ranches and it may come to the point someday where I will be asked to pay to play or they will may have to lease it out to keep up with the high cost of fuel feed and other ranching cost.
Public can be a crowed mess and at times is extremely frustrating to hunt especially when the Fish and Game in some states shut access roads on public land during the hunting seasons making it necessary to employ the use of horses to reach elk or just reach an area with game. Getting permission to hunt private lands still happens but not often and especially with out the requirement of paying a fee.
Charging anyone to access PUBLIC lands is criminal as the land s belong to the people in the USA just because it is blocked or lies within private land should not mean the person who owns the private decides how the public is managed but in the great American West this is something we have been forced to live with and I believe in Wyoming you can not even legally corner cross public to public if there is private on the borders.
If enough sportsman’s would pressure their Game and Fish depts. for a Public land access through private lands and a block management type program in their states it would open up a lot more opportunities for everyone
How about Wyoming’s anti NR wilderness laws what a bunch of crap the Outfitters have strong influence in Wyoming as they do in most Western states such as Colorado for instance. Not allowing a NR to hunt on public Federal lands in Wyoming just because it is designated a wilderness area is wrong.
I could just imagine the mass of crap another state would get if they decided to enact a similar law. What I find funny is that a NR can’t hunt a Wyoming wilderness area without a guide this person can be a resident or an outfitter sounds like crap to me an outfitters ploy to keep NR paying those fees to hunt with them.
I have hunted with several outfitters through out the USA and Canada and do not feel they are all bad people but they should be governed according to fairness among the general hunting public. Favoring laws to outfitters to enable them to financial gain to assist in the harvest of animals that are on public lands that belong to the people is out right criminal but it will take a lot of political pressure from such states, own residents as Non residents to change such unfair laws.
Trophy hunting and peoples obsession with score is not helping the sport or the hunters image as a whole. A lot of are so called wildlife organizations who receive millions in donations every year are not doing the thing they say they stand for. A lot of the money brought in never goes to the crucial things needed such as habitat. They get these so called conservation tags and auction them of to the highest bidder. Yes it is a great way to raise money but at the same time robs someone of a tag they have been applying forever for.
Not all organizations are corrupt but the ones that are do a lot of damage by not protecting the animals and the hunters that they founded the organizations to do so.
Hunting is already a rich mans sport in the fact that if money was no object to someone even with little or no skil, a person could buy almost anything. Conservation tags to hunt a full year, Top quality every thing for gear the best of the best guided private land hunts(shoots) Travel to anywhere in the world and have people finding you the animal you want and paying more for a certain score the word hunting would not mean anything to this person but money sure would as he has been rewarded for his wealth. A lot of people could have several Big horn sheep Grizzly bears Giant Moose and 200 inch mulies lining the wall of there enormous trophy rooms if they had the money to blow on such things. Every one say hunting is becoming a rich mans sport but at the same time it is becoming more about affording top technology, products, private hunting, and less and less about knowledge and skill.
So far (knock on wood)
I have never had to stay home during a deer season in any if the states I have lived in because I could not afford a resident tag. Other factors are the ones I worry most about time of from work to hunt, price of Gas, I do not need Several thousand dollars in equipment or to shoot a Monster every time out. Sure none of us really need these things most us would like these things but more than a few can not afford these so we make to make do with what we have or can afford.
If you were able to dedicate yourself to hunting the full season say all 6-7 days of a deer season (example) and had plenty of time to scout in the preseason. You would not need the aid of a bunch of fancy equipment a simple 30-06(because of its known ability to be a do it all rifle) adequate clothing and equipment( you don’t need fancy came when you cover it all up with orange as most states require) and some old fashion boot leather and hard hunting a lot of people would be supprised the quality animals they would encounter and if they did not harvest anything than at least they would know they worked their tales of for a good hunt. But the people who can and do afford to pay their way to their anything they want to kill find just as much satisfaction in what they have paid for as some one who killed themselves for a spike bull.
A trophy is in the eye of the beholder.
The fact is there are quite a few guys right on this site that sacrifice time away from their families their jobs and hunt on public lands crowded by tons of hunts both residents and NR's and hunt hard and patiently watching people all around them trek right past good mule bucks and even kill a smaller buck when there is a monster only 50 yards always bedded tight as they sit and watch the hunter leave with the small deer only to later harvest the pig that just laid there and watched as a unknowing hunter walked right by.
There are people who hunt hard and take great animals and if they don’t then they are still happy with the hunt and not the kill and these people do it with little time, little money, family, average to less than equipment and all on crowded public lands.
I have a good friend who hunts a lot and just loves hunting. He takes a bull or buck if he has the tag but will kill does just the same he takes pictures of all of his animals makes customs scrap books for his pictures and relives the memories of the hunt and acts as happy with his harvest as many do over a big buck. He has taken some decent animals but has often shot does or smaller bucks instead and hunts only on public land.
I once asked him do you not care about just getting one big one his response was hunting is hunting and I am happy that I have the opportunity to hunt and what ever GOD blesses me and my family with I am happy with. He then said people say hunting is a rich mans sport, he paused and says I must be considered very wealthy for nothing has kept me from hunting even though I don’t make much money and have only simple equipment as I can not afford the fancy stuff. After he said that I relpied yep I guess trophy hunting is becoming a rich mans sport.
I guess my point is the cost of hunting and limited acess to some pubic and most private land is influenced by a lot of factors and unless we as hunters are willing to unite and do something about it. We will just have to hunt harder & smarter on the public lands that we are lucky to have. Hunting out of state is somewhat of a luxerie for most as is the better equipment so we can do something or make due with what we have.
But so far I have not encountered a time where resident tag fees in my state were to expensive for me to afford or I could not find some public land to hunt. Where as if I still lived back East or in a state with very little or no public land I would be in a very different situation.
Like I said earlier hunting is slowly becoming a rich mans sport, but there are many other contributing factors than tag increases. I have more of a problem with how today’s land owners are now charging people hundreds of dollars to hunt their property or worse yet leasing their property to outfitters or hunting companies. We even have landowners charging people that drive across their lands just to access public ground on the other side.
When I was younger most landowners would beg people to come and shoot an animal on their land just so that animal wouldn't hurt crops or compete with livestock. But now people have found away to make a buck and put money in their pocket. We can contribute most of this to today's world of "Trophy" hunting and how everyone is so intrigued on what an animal scores, and how many will pay just about anything to have bigger and better than the last guy.
First off this is not directed at any one person just my opinion and no disrespect or offense meant to anyone.
Wyodsheds you make some good points but it seems it will only get worse before it gets better. I think that is great that you have you volunteer to help the Game and Fish. As you said not many people do so and I don’t think there will ever be too many NR willing to travel to another state to so but would be great if more people volunteered in their own states, it is a great way to learn about wildlife and how the Game and fish operates.
Tag fee increases are only going to get worse and every time people drop out of hunting a state someone else will only benefit from the lesser competition whether it be points or tags. If you live in a state and pay taxes than you should pay a lesser rate than a NR period not saying that NR fees in the West are cheap but they seem to be following suite with what other states are charging and doing. As far as tag fees going directly to the Fish and Game I am not so sure I know in a few states the state collects the money and gives the Fish and Game a % or set budget of it to operate on they say most states have a self supporting Game and Fish dept imagine how much they could do if they really collected what revenue they brought in instead of the greedy government wasting it and treating it as a cash cow. More than a few Western states collect so much money form the oil and gas companies who operate on public lands and destroy wild life habitat imagine if the bulk of that money coming in went for education and wildlife tags fees surely would have no reason to be so high.
I guess you can not blame a land owner for charging money to hunt on land he owns maintains and pays a mortgage and taxes on.
Leasing it to outfitters is common even back East now dais seems every where to hunt private you will have to be willing to pay. Unlike back East we are blessed with many big game animals and Lots of Public land to hunt. Supply and demand of private lands and trophy animals have changed forever the way Private land access is handled. But on the other hand if it was not my land to begin with and a land owner allowed hunting but now not with out a fee than I did not really loose anything but access to land that the land owner was generous enough to let me on.
Growing up in the East I had to rely on Private permission as there was slim to no public land to hunt where I grew up at first it was fairly easy to get access but soon landowners where leasing land to pay taxes on their property which is very high in the East. Hunting clubs started up and gobbled up large tracts of prime land and limited membership and charged high rates.
I hunt both private and public in a few western states including Wyoming I have a few friends that own small to large ranches and it may come to the point someday where I will be asked to pay to play or they will may have to lease it out to keep up with the high cost of fuel feed and other ranching cost.
Public can be a crowed mess and at times is extremely frustrating to hunt especially when the Fish and Game in some states shut access roads on public land during the hunting seasons making it necessary to employ the use of horses to reach elk or just reach an area with game. Getting permission to hunt private lands still happens but not often and especially with out the requirement of paying a fee.
Charging anyone to access PUBLIC lands is criminal as the land s belong to the people in the USA just because it is blocked or lies within private land should not mean the person who owns the private decides how the public is managed but in the great American West this is something we have been forced to live with and I believe in Wyoming you can not even legally corner cross public to public if there is private on the borders.
If enough sportsman’s would pressure their Game and Fish depts. for a Public land access through private lands and a block management type program in their states it would open up a lot more opportunities for everyone
How about Wyoming’s anti NR wilderness laws what a bunch of crap the Outfitters have strong influence in Wyoming as they do in most Western states such as Colorado for instance. Not allowing a NR to hunt on public Federal lands in Wyoming just because it is designated a wilderness area is wrong.
I could just imagine the mass of crap another state would get if they decided to enact a similar law. What I find funny is that a NR can’t hunt a Wyoming wilderness area without a guide this person can be a resident or an outfitter sounds like crap to me an outfitters ploy to keep NR paying those fees to hunt with them.
I have hunted with several outfitters through out the USA and Canada and do not feel they are all bad people but they should be governed according to fairness among the general hunting public. Favoring laws to outfitters to enable them to financial gain to assist in the harvest of animals that are on public lands that belong to the people is out right criminal but it will take a lot of political pressure from such states, own residents as Non residents to change such unfair laws.
Trophy hunting and peoples obsession with score is not helping the sport or the hunters image as a whole. A lot of are so called wildlife organizations who receive millions in donations every year are not doing the thing they say they stand for. A lot of the money brought in never goes to the crucial things needed such as habitat. They get these so called conservation tags and auction them of to the highest bidder. Yes it is a great way to raise money but at the same time robs someone of a tag they have been applying forever for.
Not all organizations are corrupt but the ones that are do a lot of damage by not protecting the animals and the hunters that they founded the organizations to do so.
Hunting is already a rich mans sport in the fact that if money was no object to someone even with little or no skil, a person could buy almost anything. Conservation tags to hunt a full year, Top quality every thing for gear the best of the best guided private land hunts(shoots) Travel to anywhere in the world and have people finding you the animal you want and paying more for a certain score the word hunting would not mean anything to this person but money sure would as he has been rewarded for his wealth. A lot of people could have several Big horn sheep Grizzly bears Giant Moose and 200 inch mulies lining the wall of there enormous trophy rooms if they had the money to blow on such things. Every one say hunting is becoming a rich mans sport but at the same time it is becoming more about affording top technology, products, private hunting, and less and less about knowledge and skill.
So far (knock on wood)
I have never had to stay home during a deer season in any if the states I have lived in because I could not afford a resident tag. Other factors are the ones I worry most about time of from work to hunt, price of Gas, I do not need Several thousand dollars in equipment or to shoot a Monster every time out. Sure none of us really need these things most us would like these things but more than a few can not afford these so we make to make do with what we have or can afford.
If you were able to dedicate yourself to hunting the full season say all 6-7 days of a deer season (example) and had plenty of time to scout in the preseason. You would not need the aid of a bunch of fancy equipment a simple 30-06(because of its known ability to be a do it all rifle) adequate clothing and equipment( you don’t need fancy came when you cover it all up with orange as most states require) and some old fashion boot leather and hard hunting a lot of people would be supprised the quality animals they would encounter and if they did not harvest anything than at least they would know they worked their tales of for a good hunt. But the people who can and do afford to pay their way to their anything they want to kill find just as much satisfaction in what they have paid for as some one who killed themselves for a spike bull.
A trophy is in the eye of the beholder.
The fact is there are quite a few guys right on this site that sacrifice time away from their families their jobs and hunt on public lands crowded by tons of hunts both residents and NR's and hunt hard and patiently watching people all around them trek right past good mule bucks and even kill a smaller buck when there is a monster only 50 yards always bedded tight as they sit and watch the hunter leave with the small deer only to later harvest the pig that just laid there and watched as a unknowing hunter walked right by.
There are people who hunt hard and take great animals and if they don’t then they are still happy with the hunt and not the kill and these people do it with little time, little money, family, average to less than equipment and all on crowded public lands.
I have a good friend who hunts a lot and just loves hunting. He takes a bull or buck if he has the tag but will kill does just the same he takes pictures of all of his animals makes customs scrap books for his pictures and relives the memories of the hunt and acts as happy with his harvest as many do over a big buck. He has taken some decent animals but has often shot does or smaller bucks instead and hunts only on public land.
I once asked him do you not care about just getting one big one his response was hunting is hunting and I am happy that I have the opportunity to hunt and what ever GOD blesses me and my family with I am happy with. He then said people say hunting is a rich mans sport, he paused and says I must be considered very wealthy for nothing has kept me from hunting even though I don’t make much money and have only simple equipment as I can not afford the fancy stuff. After he said that I relpied yep I guess trophy hunting is becoming a rich mans sport.
I guess my point is the cost of hunting and limited acess to some pubic and most private land is influenced by a lot of factors and unless we as hunters are willing to unite and do something about it. We will just have to hunt harder & smarter on the public lands that we are lucky to have. Hunting out of state is somewhat of a luxerie for most as is the better equipment so we can do something or make due with what we have.
But so far I have not encountered a time where resident tag fees in my state were to expensive for me to afford or I could not find some public land to hunt. Where as if I still lived back East or in a state with very little or no public land I would be in a very different situation.
THE LORD IS MY ROCK
